Welcome to the Brave Women at Work podcast. This is your host, Jen Pestikas. I’m so glad you’re here. Well, hey everyone, how are you doing out there this week? I hope your new year has been off to a good start. It has been quite the whirlwind in the Pestikas household. You think that you’re going to start the year and it’s going to ease in. Nope. I have to tell you, it’s not been like that at all, and I almost didn’t get this podcast on on time. Thank goodness we’ve squeezed this in. This is so important to me. Why didn’t I get this done or almost not done on time? We had to drive in a snowstorm in Chicago to get my daughter Charlotte to her poms or cheer competition. Yes, I am a poms mom. Poms is kind of like cheer but more dance-related. If you know me, you’d be like, “What? Who knew that would happen?” But she’s excellent, her team is excellent. Of course, I’m biased, but it’s just so fun to see them and all of the other dancers out there. I’m so, so proud of her and their entire team.

Welcome to the final show in the Reinvent Your Career Roadmap mini-series with my friend and colleague Jenn Smith of Flourish Careers. I have heard such great feedback on this series from listeners, so thank you so much for sharing. If you would like to have more series like this in the future, please email me at hello@bravewomenatwork.com or send me a message in the DMs, either LinkedIn or Instagram primarily.

This week, Jenn and I share practical tips and steps that you can take today to start that process of reinventing your career. It’s one thing to talk about it in theory; it’s another to start taking bold and brave action towards making your next career chapter a reality.

Here are some specific things we cover in today’s show. We talk about tiny actions to move through reinvention, building new habits and rituals, how to experiment your way into clarity, love that one, networking in an aligned human way, and creating space for the next version of your life. Again, these shows are shorter than my typical length. They’re about 30 minutes, but they are power-packed. So if you have a deep desire for change in 2026 in your career or maybe even your entire life, listen in.

Here’s a bit more about Jenn. Jennifer Smith believes career success doesn’t have to be at the expense of living a radiantly happy and healthy lifestyle. Before she became a career coach and HR consultant for heart-based professionals, her roots were deeply grounded in corporate America, including 15 years in HR departments at Fortune 200 organizations. Now, as a career coach and consultant, she has had the honor of supporting thousands of professionals around the world by assisting them with discovering and pursuing career intentions better aligned with their hearts and spirits while prioritizing well-being, and she believes we’re all better for it.

She also thinks it’s time to stop applying to all those jobs that, let’s be honest, don’t exactly get you excited anyway. Using a proven heart-based approach, Jenn will help you cultivate a better path, confidently pursue new opportunities, and find the place where you belong.

If the Brave Women at Work podcast has helped you personally or professionally, please be sure to share it with a friend, a family member, and a colleague. I also wanted to share publicly, if you’ve missed my social posts, I just want to celebrate with you for a minute. The show has just eclipsed 100,000 downloads in over 34 countries. I am just so humbled by it. I’m just awed by it. I never thought that would be possible. So thank you, thank you, thank you. Let’s keep getting this in the hands of more women, more listeners like you. Leave a rating and review in Apple Podcasts. That’s how we do it, right? That’s how we get to more countries and more downloads and get this good stuff in the hands of more people.

Of course, don’t forget about the freebies on bravewomenatwork.com. There are three out there today: 10 tips to win your next negotiation, and I’m going to be doing a couple of speaking events on negotiation this year so far, and I’ll be sure to share more about that as soon as I can, 24 career and leadership tips is the second freebie, and then 5 ways to managing your imposter syndrome.

All right, let’s welcome Jenn to our final show in the series.

Hello and welcome back! We are so glad you’re here for the final episode in this three-part series. Today, we’re going to shift from the emotional and energetic side of transformation into something a little more concrete. What does it actually look like to reinvent your career?

Because once you’ve recognized the signs and redefined what success means to you, the next question becomes, “Okay, well, now what?” The truth is, reinvention doesn’t happen through one big leap, as we’ve both shared in our stories. It happens through small intentional steps.

Yes. Today we’re sharing the practical actions, these tiny experiments I like to call them, the rituals, the habits that helped both of us build careers that are aligned and energizing and true. So, Jen, let’s start with you. What does self-discovery look like for you? Is it journaling, coaching, assessment? What works for you?

Everything! I’m laughing. My husband, I have to share here, he’s so funny. He’s like, “You need always a therapist, a coach, a self-help pod.” And I do. I need all the things. I’m just telling you for everybody that is in there, it is okay if you need all the things. I dabble on and off with journaling. I did a lot of journaling as a young teen and adult. I usually have a coach at least once a year. It’s non-negotiable; it’s just an investment in myself. I do values work and I need to revisit it in ’26, so Jenn, you can hold me accountable on that. Then I’m an assessments junkie, I’m always looking at assessments. I’ve been getting into Human Design lately, which is a whole other podcast, but I do all the assessments. So the answer is all the things. Hopefully that’s helpful.

Same, all the things here too. The message there is do whatever works for you and do all the things.

Yes. So Jenn, what about you? What were the very first steps that you took when you were starting exploring something new?

For me, I always describe this as this whisper. I literally had this whisper in the back of my head and it was like, “Help people with their resumes, help people figure out what they want to do with their career.” It literally would not go away. So I just started getting really curious and noticing that whisper. I was super drawn to career coaching, and this was before I knew career coaching is a thing. This was like, there was no career coaches.

Oh wow. I didn’t know that.

Right. So I had no, I was like, “Wait, what is” I mean, there were some obviously because I was expanded, I was drawn to that, but it was before it was a thing. I just listened to those breadcrumbs. I’m a huge fan of signs and synchronicity, so if I saw a sign or synchronicity, I was like, “Yes, let’s go.” Oracle cards, Jen, you had mentioned a whole list of things, but oracle cards can give you messages. That’s just kind of what I was drawn to, what I was curious about. Then I think the other thing that’s really important here is the permission to not know. It doesn’t have to be perfect. I remember my word of the year or theme of the year going into 2020, which was the year that I started doing this full-time, was being lost in the right direction. I knew I was in the right direction, but I was totally lost. I had no idea, but I just kept taking the right next step and that’s how I got to however many years later it is.

Oh my word. Okay, so I’m putting you on the spot. If you don’t have it, we’ll tell people later, but have you picked your word of the year for next year already?

It’s lingering. I’m thinking the word “expand.” There’s something around alignment and expansion. How about you?

Mine is going to be “intentional.”

Oh, good word.

Yes. I’m a typical person, like those overachievers, and just because, someone told me this, I’ve learned it painfully over the last couple of years, just because you can doesn’t mean you should. A lot of people look at me and go, “Oh, she’s capable, she’s capable,” and then they give me all the things. I take on all the things and then I can’t really focus and be intentional. So that’s going to be my word.

One thing at a time, slowing it down. I think that goes along with the presence that you were talking about earlier too.

Yes. The last thing I think, like we’re talking about signs and the whisper and being in your body, I would just say to everyone, if you can try to slow down as Jenn was saying, because you may not hear the whispers, you may not see the signs. So take that breath. We’re not going to go into meditation today, but I will just say, take that breath because I think it matters.

So Jen, I was going to ask you too, we’re talking about kind of slowing down and listening to the whisper. One of the things that I think is super helpful for folks as well is trying things, like experiments. So maybe going back to when you first started the Brave Women at Work community or you were kind of unsure of what it was going to become. Do you have an example of an experiment that you tried early on to help you get clear without the pressure of a big commitment?

Yes. I think just purchasing a podcast mic. Everyone’s told me, they’re like, “What are you doing?” Here’s the thing I have to share. My family and friends, I love them all, but they were really scared for me because they’re like, “Here you are taking on something else.” It was very confusing for them. But I was clear yet, like you said, I knew I was going in the right direction but I didn’t know where I was going. So I had to listen to that whisper. One of them was purchasing a podcast mic. It was stalking people on LinkedIn that I really wanted to interview because people weren’t reaching out to me. It was listening when that voice would say at the end of a podcast, “Ask them to be a repeat guest.” Just stuff like little stuff, which sounds silly, but it’s really not so silly.

No. And the one that comes to mind, I know I’ve talked to you about this before, but the conversation with Hope, when you had that intuition to ask Hope to start the books.

I was like, “Hey Hope, you don’t know me. You want to write books?”

And she said yes, and you guys are on what number book now?

Five. We’re on five right now.

Amazing. Five books in! Do the experiment. Buy the microphone. Ask the person.

I know because you know, I don’t know if you know this Jenn, this is, Brave Women at Work is not my first business. So I tried before. I had another business, it was “How Winning is Done.” It was a whole different name and I tried and it didn’t feel authentic so I went to something new. There is no failure; it’s just redirection and you will never know unless you try these little micro-experiments.

Yes, 100 percent. That’s right, you never know unless you try.

Exactly. So what about you, Jenn? What creative experiments have helped you move from “I want this” to “this is my direction”?

I don’t know if this is a creative experiment, but getting a career coaching certification definitely helped me solidify. I’m not a huge fan of, there’s a caveat here. I think that sometimes people talk themselves out of doing something because they think they have to go back to school or get some big degree or certification. You don’t have to. You just don’t have to. For me, because career coaching wasn’t yet a thing, getting the certification was an experiment to make me realize yes, I really want to do this, or no, I don’t. So here I am in a huge demanding day job, also spending a lot of time and energy getting a career coaching certification. The fact that that was driving my energy, I wasn’t dreading it, I wanted to do it, I could feel that shift in my energy. Then once I got the certification and I started the side hustle with The Muse, I was doing career coaching nights and weekends on top of a very demanding day job, but I was so energized every single time I got done with one of those career conversations. That experiment of getting the certification and noticing the energy shifts was really critical for me to continue on.

One thing before we move on, on that. I’ve had a lot of people ask me this question because I’m still in corporate and they’re like, “What are you taking? Are you on some sort of energy medication or energy drinks or how are you doing all of this?” I get this question almost weekly. The reason that it works is because I get so much energy from coaching and podcasting and books and book marketing and all of those things that I’m actually a better employee. So don’t shy away from these micro-experiments because you’ll be amazed at how your energy shifts in your body.

Yes. And when, I have to put a plug for heart-based career planning because that’s what I love doing, when your energy and your impact and your values are all aligned, that’s what work feels like. It doesn’t drain you. That’s really, in my opinion, what work should feel like.

So Jenn, let’s talk about those supportive rituals. What daily or weekly rituals grounded you during your career transition and maybe even still today?

I’m going to share, and folks have heard me share this before, but “Five Minutes to Flourish” is a ritual that I will live and die by. It was the only thing that helped me get out of the day-to-day chaos of a demanding day job and be able to start first the side hustle and then Flourish Careers. The idea here is just to spend five minutes consistently on one tiny thing that is going to move you forward. This for me started out literally five minutes of gratitude before I started my day because I was in a tough spot. I was kind of miserable. Gratitude really changed that for me. Then that five minutes shifted to, “Okay, how do I find a domain for a website?” And then that five minutes shifted to, “What do I want to call my business?” There was literally just five minutes. What it would do is it tricked my brain. I would literally set the timer on my phone for five minutes, and I’m a morning person, so I did this in the morning before I started my day job, just five minutes, one tiny thing. If I had the time and energy to continue, I would. If not, that five minutes, I did something. When you look back, those tiny things add up and all of a sudden you’re making a change. That’s the ritual that I will take all day long. What about you? Anything that’s helped you?

Well, first thing, I’ve quoted “Five Minutes to Flourish” on my podcast many times, by the way. So I’ve given you credit every time. I’m continuing to spread the good word because I think it is really important, especially for women that are in that in-between in corporate or have other demands. So my rituals are shifting. One of the things I do is I will read the Bible app for a couple of minutes, I do the Bible, and then I pull a card. So I do both. I really struggled with that, so I’m here to tell you it’s okay. You do your faith and then you do your spiritual. Those are part of my rituals. Then if I can get my breathwork in even if it’s partial, that’s really the rituals that have kind of helped ground me before kiddos are getting up and “Mom, where’s my lunch?” and all that kind of stuff before I start my day.

Yes. I think what’s critical there is that you’re prioritizing yourself. That’s another big piece of this. When you have all the things going on, taking a few minutes to prioritize yourself, whether that’s the morning, the end, the bookends,  we always say the morning or the end of the day. Sometimes we can’t control what happens in the middle. Pick a few minutes in the morning or pick a few minutes at the end of the day to prioritize yourself and do that one or two tiny things that are going to help you make change. Great examples there.

So we’ve been talking a little bit about energy versus titles. In terms of taking action, Jen, what role does energy play in helping you choose what to do next? Sometimes we talk about light energy versus heavy energy. How does energy help you take action?

So I am a newbie on this, everyone, admittedly. I used to just take it all on as I said earlier. So I’m still learning but I am starting to feel it in my body. If it feels really good, I’m like, “Oh yes, yes, yes.” The breadcrumbs are leading in that direction. But there are times because I’m in that in-between where I still have to take on the heavy energy. But then I go back to my rituals like at the end of a really tough day, do my breathwork, or call a friend, or do like you said, “Five Minutes to Flourish” on my side hustles or things like that. For me, it’s not one or the other. It’s learning how to nourish myself when I have to deal with heavier energy but trying to be in lighter energy as much as I can.

#NourishToFlourish. Another one of my favorite things because you have to take care of yourself, especially when you have all the demanding things happening. I think that’s a really big piece of making a change is recognizing just what you shared there. It’s a really big deal.

Yes, exactly. So what about you, Jenn? When did you learn to trust that big energetic “yes”? I think we all know what that means. We decided we’re going to do this podcast; you and I were both like, “Yes!” even if that “yes” doesn’t look traditional or even linear to people around us.

This is an interesting one too. I just want to mention—and I think you mentioned this either earlier in this episode or previously—about other people. First, you’re going to have an energetic “yes” and it’s not going to make sense to other people. Those other people are people that care about you and they want you to be safe. They might not agree with you buying the podcast microphone or stepping out of a lucrative corporate career. But that’s okay because that’s their role; they want to keep you safe, they love you, they want to support you. You have to learn to trust your own energetic “yes” even if other people don’t understand it. That’s just what transition and change is all about. Two things for me that I want to share here. First is the first reaction, the “hell yes.” Jen, same, this was like a “hell yes,” let’s do this podcast series. Noticing the first reaction and then something I learned that I was never very good at because I’m very impatient, to pause. If something comes through for me, I’m going to give it 24 hours unless it’s a “hell yes.” I’m going to pause and then I’m going to respond. Sometimes I’ll put myself in that pause, I’ll put myself in the future and say, “Okay, if I say yes to this and it’s the future and this thing is happening tomorrow, how am I going to feel about that?” That’ll tell me like, “Oh, I’m going to be excited, okay, yes,” or “Mmm, I’m not going to be super thrilled that I said yes to this,” then that’s probably a no. Those are just some practical and tactical things that might help folks.

One other thing on the other side. I’m going to just mention, if you are interested go look up your Human Design. I am a Sacral Authority, so I’m a gut-based decision-maker all the time. For me, it’s always “hell yes” or “hell no.” It’s not immediate,  but I don’t, you are different than I, so this is good like that we have a difference here, like that you wanna put yourself and give it 24 hours for me but pretty quickly it’ll be like a body like, “Mmm-mm.” Or if it doesn’t feel good I’m like, “Nope.” Or if it’s “not now.” If I don’t feel “hell yes,” I just can’t do it because that’s just how I’m based.

That’s huge. Human Design, we should definitely put a link to Human Design because I’ve been learning more about that too and it is life-changing. I’m Emotional. So my decision-making is emotional and so sometimes I need that pause to take the emotion out of it and then make sure that I’m making the heart-based decision. Yes, I’m glad you shared that.

Yes, of course. Okay, so for you, let’s create space for something new. What did you need to let go of, Jenn, emotionally or physically to create space for the career that you were building and now love?

So this we kind of touched on this before, but Jen, for me it was the “shoulds.” I was like, “You have this amazing corporate career, you should be happy.” And then it was all the other people I was worried about, like my mother-in-law. I was so worried that she was going to think her son married this crazy lunatic that was going off and doing her own thing. Guess what? She’s been the biggest supporter of my work. So letting go of that was really hard but it was also very freeing. Then the idea of I was running towards something. This is critical, and this is especially critical I think when people are making career changes, is like I felt like I was running away. “Okay, that job doesn’t really feel right, this company’s not feeling right, I’m running away.” But now I was running towards something. I was so excited to be doing what I was going and that was a huge shift for me in creating the space was what I was running towards. Also super fun side note, I had a countdown app on my phone that went down to the second of when I was going to be on my own. That was really fun just to see every single day, the hours, the minutes, the seconds get lighter and lighter.

That is kind of fun. And did you make it in time?

Oh yeah. No, yeah. No, every day. So it was to my last day. It just counted down the hours and the minutes. So every day it’s just kind of fun to see. Okay. So Jen, how about you? What helped you get comfortable with uncertainty as you’re making this shift?

I think it’s like listening to that voice. I think it’s going back to community again. Meeting you and you’re like, “Hello, Jen.” I almost feel like you are all like sisters that are ahead of me, like the big sisters, and you’re like, “Jen, the reason you don’t want your clothes anymore is that you’re in the middle of it.” I’m like, “Oh, okay.” Because it’s confusing when you’re by yourself and going, “I wore these suits five years ago, now I can’t even look at them anymore. I want to light them on fire.” So I think it’s that big sister energy, surrounding yourself with the right people that have either gone before you or just a couple steps ahead. I think those are the things that are really helping me right now.

Yes, I couldn’t agree more. It’s like that expansion when you see other people that have done it. That was the same for me too. I went out on LinkedIn and found career coaches, again, it wasn’t a thing, went out and found them and talked to them and found out that they were making a great salary doing career coaching. So there’s all these things that are out there that are expansion for you that you can kind of tap into. So Jen, you just kind of mentioned this, but were there certain people that really have been super supportive and helping you stay committed and accountable to making a shift? Coaches, mentors, peer groups?

Yes. Coaches that I’ve had. I have one right now that’s kicking my butt for sure, that every time I talk to him he’s like, “And yes you will, and yes you will.” I’m like, “Okay, okay.” I think just watching you and others in our community that are going before me is just so encouraging. Because I will be honest and this is vulnerable, I think that my own family and some of my dear friends are totally behind me. But some of my own family members are still a little like, “Eh, what’s going on over there?” So that is hard. It is really hard. What I’ve learned is to give them compassion and then also to be like, “And let me show you.” Not in a mean way, in a really loving way. Like with your mother-in-law, she’s now your biggest supporter. That’s where I hope to get is that people be like, “Wow, I didn’t really understand it, but I do now.” And that’s my goal.

Yes, I love that you shared that. I think like coming from a place of accountability, it’s easy to stay safe. It’s easy to do what you know day in and day out. It’s hard to make a change. Accountability from others and just having and seeing that it can actually happen is such a big piece.

 So, Jen, what about you? What about, uh, accountability and how it looks like in your life right now?

 Yeah. So for me it’s really about alignment and sustainability ’cause I wanna do all the things, so I have to figure out what’s most aligned right now and you know, what’s sustainable for me.  So it’s less about proving or pushing, but it’s really about pausing, checking in, asking myself, is this aligned? Is it sustainable? I always say, I’m almost, I’m like disciplined to a fault. So, I just can’t help myself. So that accountability is kind of, another tool Enneagram. I’m an Enneagram three.  It’s an achiever. I literally just can’t help myself. So accountability, it comes very naturally to me, but it’s really more about that alignment and sustainability.

 Okay, so that makes total sense. So this is a fun question, like we talk about the new identity. So I’m really glad that I get to ask you this because I’m in the middle, but you are fully in the identity. So when did you first say out loud, this is who I am now?

Jen, I have a story. This is so hilarious, but I will never forget this moment. It’s actually in my chapter in Brave Women at Work Lessons Letting Go.  But I was at the Starbucks drive through and I’ll literally, I can still picture this young man at the window of the Starbucks drive through, he was so sweet. And he’s like, oh, how’s your day? Or whatever, and I was like, oh good. He’s like, you’re about to start work. I’m like, yeah. And he said, well, what do you do? I said, well, I’m a career coach and I help people make career changes. And he looked at me, he’s like, oh, wow, that’s pretty cool. In that moment,  I said it out loud for the first time.  Oh so good.

It was just like this response of like, oh wow, that’s pretty cool. You know, just that validation I guess, it just shifted everything for me. I will never forget that moment and I wish I knew who that young man was because it was just such a special moment.  So, yeah. Thanks for asking that question.

 Oh yeah. I think he was like an angel in your life.  I think he was, it was definitely a divinely guided conversation for sure.
Jen, as we kind of wrap up here, how do you go, how do you keep anchoring into kind of this new identity when those old doubts and the patterns show up? ’cause you’re kind of in the middle of it.

 I keep anchoring in joy, so there is no, it can’t be anything, but make sense that every time I do a podcast, speak with you, speak with others, like I feel so excited like the rest of my day, like in all of my corporate, I’m gonna be like riding on the melt of this joy.  Like I’m gonna be like, woo, you know, all that kind of stuff. So I have to listen to that so that I can’t deny it. I have to anchor in my joy is the answer.

And I think noticing that like, Hey, what does bring you joy and delight? And having something to look forward to also can be really helpful. Which I’ll put a plug for the in-season planner because there is a section in there.  Oh, five Minutes to Flourish is in the planner and declaring a daily delight. So every day having one tiny thing you’re looking forward to can make all the difference. So, Jen, it’s the podcast, for me it’s the podcast, or it’s writing a blog or whatever it is. One tiny thing will help keep you grounded throughout.  So yeah, great example.

I love daily delight. Mine will be this and now I’m going to a Starbucks drive-thru.

Amazing. Fancy coffee is always the answer.

It is always the answer. Okay, well everyone, as we are putting this series to a close, reinvention isn’t about having the perfect plan. It’s about taking one aligned step, then another, then another, and letting the path reveal itself.

Yes. And I’ll just add that you don’t have to do it alone. We are here to help, there are communities out there that are there to help you and we hope that these stories shed some light that you can do this and that you do deserve it. Your clarity, your courage, and your next chapter all become so much more possible when you have the right rituals, the right small actions, and the right people around you.

Thank you again so much for joining for the entire series. We hope you feel seen, supported, and inspired to step into your own next season.

Well, that’s a wrap on my discussion with Jenn and our entire career reinvention series today. Jenn, I would like to thank you personally for doing this. It was an awesome experience to record with you and of course, I hope to do it again in the future. Jenn and I hope you found our conversation and this entire series on career reinvention valuable and inspiring.

Here are a few questions until next time.
After listening to the practical steps on career reinvention today, what is the first step that you’re planning to take?
The second is who are you planning to check in with to make sure that first step has taken place? And finally, by when?
Find an accountability partner on your journey to career reinvention. I promise you it will make a difference.

As a reminder, please rate, review, and subscribe to the podcast in Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
The show is also available on any other podcast platform you enjoy.

Until next time, show up, take steps to reinvent your career, and be brave.